Chawlk

1. Drawar
2. Fenxy
3. Decaflon
4. Two Credits
5. Wriging
6. Loose Suits
7. Chixe
8. Dud3s
9. Wing Colors

 

I'm a bit sleepy still, having just got up, so please ignore me if you've already answered this, but why the move? I am scratching my head.

Or did I sleep in? Is it April 1st again?

Back, back, back to my roots...

It's so BLUE!

I'm delirious and going to bed.

@Oli: We talk about the change in a podcast being published today at 3by9, but if that's too long I will be doing more writeups to explain the reasoning later today. It's 4:40am right now so I might head to bed soon.

In a nutshell confusing people was getting a bit frustrating.

You did open it up? Nice. Cool.

I'm signing in (up?) at Chawlk straightaway to see what it's like.

Yay! It works!

I am Chris, and I approve this message.

I like where this is going. 9rules was getting way overwhelming, so it's good to have a separation.

This just clicks! All you've been saying the past couple of weeks, about The Power Of One, about features and community and references to submissions ... you guys've been planning this for ages, haven't you?

No need to explain 9rules as anything other than a blogging network, and the community still lives on. Amazing! Just. Friggin. Amazing.

I think I see another upside to it: 9rules's reputation used to rely upon the reputations of its component member blogs, and that really worked for it. That symbiotic relationship has taken a beating somewhat this past few months, but this move paves the way for a return to it.

Did I mention you guys are geniuses? Genius. Pure, unadulterated genius.

Cheers, Triad. When's the launch drinkcast? ;)

Well we just finished a drinkcast 4 hours ago where we "announced" this stuff. I think I got an hour of sleep and I simply got up to get a drink of water and haven't gone back to sleep yet.

Geniuses? Nah I wouldn't say that. If we were geniuses maybe we would've done all this 3 years ago, but thanks for the compliment shadow. And see, finding out about this stuff before everyone else wasn't that bad at all was it?

All you've been saying the past couple of weeks, about The Power Of One, about features and community and references to submissions

Yeah if you kept up with ExpertIdiot and my 3by9 writings you can see I was definitely leading into this moment.

I think it makes a lot of sense. :)
I think by splitting 9r up into 9r and Chawlk it will keep the quality content of 9r like tasty roast chicken for the eyes.
And Chawlk can be where us heathens can go to play. ;-)

There's only three of you. I've been up and at work since 5am so I'm not all with it either. But I think it only means good things for both sites. :)

Somehow, I did see this coming along the way. I just didn't expect to see it come so soon.

The good ol' 9rules vintage. What was aged, trite and true will always be as good as new.

Sounds exciting. Good luck!

I didn't meet 9rules until later in its lifespan, but it does seem like a good move.

Better focus creates better clarity.

You're welcome, Scrivs. That was Shadowsun, Leaf fanboy speaking. =)

You said we're welcome to ask questions, so here are the ones at the top of my head, in no particular order:

1, How would the new TOS look like? A few people were upset at the community involvement clause ... does that apply to this site split?

2, Do we get ponies? =) =) =)

3, Will there be restricted areas in Chawlk? Will the 9rules members be indicated as such?

And, last, but not least,

4, Will Chawlk have the Leaf in it?

1) Tyme can answer this one better than me and she might do so in her own Note/entry, but I can say that most, if not all, the restrictions will be lifted in the new Member Agreement.

2) I still haven't gotten mine.

3) Yeah there will be some private areas, but also more open areas than before.

4) No. Chawlk will stand on its own. The Leaf represents 9rules and will remain that way for as long as we are around. Chawlk has a logo, Mike just hasn't put it up yet.

Awesome. So you decided to open the process up to the public eye after all. I'm a bit bummed, being one of those who lived for the One Big 'OMG this rules' Moment, but I'm sure getting a peak behind the scenes will have its own 'OMG' Moments as well :)

One question: Chawlk. How did you guys come up with the name and what does it mean?

O.k. although I'm new this makes sense.

I guess people (like I have done) turning up and posting semi-randomly and hopefully adding to the overall mix is worthwhile but not what 9rules was about.

So Chawlk will cater for that and 9rules will go back to showcasing the best sites/content on the web?

It is a logical step as far as I can see - 9rules will give me the content and Chawlk will give me a community to discuss that content, and other matters, with.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Seems a good idea to me. If I'm looking at themes in say wordpress I don't want to read all the points people want to make about wordpress there - that's what the forum is for. Good stuff.

I'll just have to hope that when I get my site going it makes the grade for 9rules - and so it should, there's nothing wrong with standards.

Good luck.

just visited chawlk, and i was cute'd by the direction of the page.. haha, thought i was lost in a way

anyway, this is really a good move.. 9rules will remain exclusive, while chawlk becoming a 'big' baby

@Clarkey - You got it right. :)

@alvinsoon - We had a hard time thinking of a domain name. Scrivs is excellent at coming up with names. After several days of us bouncing names around Scrivs came up with Chawlk thinking "chalk talk and sharing on the chalkboard". That is how Chawlk was born. :)

@shadowsun7: Ditto on what Scrivs said on point #1. I'll be talking about it when the time comes closer to launch.

What she said.

I was just looking through new Mint referrers, and saw my profile page on Chawlk... I thought it was someone who was ripping off my.9r, until I read this... Haha.

For me it was easy to click through to 9rules blogs from my stream to here, but that might just me me because I'm lazy.

I understand the 9rules people seem to want their exclusivity back, so this is a good move for you in that regard.

It looks cute.

Cooper you're so hardcore I didn't think the word cute was in your vernacular, but I'll take that as a compliment :)

Is that why I can't get to 9rules entries fro here?

God damn how am I going to borrow Dogmatic's c word pictures any longer.

Well 9rules Entries over at the main site are currently borked thanks to the new version of WordPress being totally incompatible with bbpress and no fix released yet. We're up late on a Friday evening trying to fix stuff.

This is great, guys. :)

I mean, I had a hard time getting by having been Cute'd and all but I survived.

9rules entries work on 9rules now. A couple more adjustments with the new shiny code and we are golden.

@estarla: Who cute'd you?

Coop said

the 9rules people seem to want their exclusivity back

I suppose that's true, but only to an extent.

From what I get from the clique*, it seems most of us just missed the old days in our clubhouse and the close-knit group we were there. As it's been said: a lot of members felt overwhelmed by the growth and the "pressure" of notes.

So I think it's more a matter of us wanting to focus on our own blogging and hang out with our pals. Saps that we are.

I think the team sensed that perfectly well.

(*I am allowed to "divulge" that, right?)

You are a member, you have your rights to speak*. We aren't communists you know, just lords of the realm.

* Only applies when we agree with you.

the 9rules people seem to want their exclusivity back

a lot of members felt overwhelmed by the growth and the "pressure" of notes.

I think I fit in nicely into these piles. Then again, like everything in life, I've gone with the flow and dealt with whatever changes I like and didn't like about where 9rules was headed.

Not to say I would be glad that the notes are gone, but considering we've been toying with it from the beginning, it's just another part of 9rules that I feel a part off. In some small ways, this division would again take some getting used to.

I'm sure that whatever changes Mike's cooking up in terms of design would work wonders with the member-driven content again. I can't wait for that. I loved that part of the old 9rules and I still think that there is merit to that.

I think this calls for my patented introspective blog post soon.

@Scrivs: That cute little Japanese girl you Youtube'd in the opening pages of Chawlk, that's who. :D

@kami, I understand all that and it does make sense for them.

From my perspective, I imagine there will be a lot more junk posts, as there is already some indication of that, which is probably one of the reasons they are separating - smart move though, making it much less useful to me personally. I can read junk posts at blog catalog, and though entertaining one can only read so many sites where the real intent is to leave a link for people to look at your blog, ask how to make money with your blog, or incite viral linkage of some type.

I haven't been hanging around at 9rules, and my part in the whole collective of useful content is below 0 , but hey I like it here and managed to get useful information and help, it really is nice to see,that 9rules is going back to what is used to be (I don't know how or what but i'll see it soon i guess). so I guess I go see that japanese girl Estarla is talking about ^-^ .

I can't believe I'm the first member to ask this, which leads me to believe that it was already asked, and I just missed it somewhere.

So awhile ago, 9rules members got an email with a new TOS or whatever. It stated that in order to stay a 9rules member you need to participate in Notes, Clips, etc. This made sense and all, but with those features moving over to Chawlk, does this above rule still apply?

I wouldn't think it would, and again, this might of been already discussed, but I would like to know (or be pointed to the place where this was already discussed).

Thanks!

@chapstick: Here ya go

Ah, thanks Tyme.

I guess I shouldn't read through several dozen Notes after a long day at work. :)

Best decision in 9rules history. We have social sites for chatting. I'm glad 9rules will be going back to it's roots; delivering awesome content.

But, and this is me playing devil's advocate, has 9rules already jumped the shark? Over the past year, some of the best known bloggers on the net have removed the leaf from their sites partly in response to the change in direction. Can 9rules reinvent itself and regain it's seat at the top?

Yeah, I think it can.

At the top of what? Let's clarify that first and then maybe we can suggest if we can or can not regain that seat. Then let's realize that the starting purpose of 9rules was to help these bloggers out. Sure it was great to get some well-known people (well-known in their respective circles, we ain't talking heavyweights here), but it was even better to get the sites nobody knew about and helped them gain exposure. We don't need the well-knowns to get anywhere because in all honesty the well-knowns never helped us in the first place.

The ones that helped us were the little people who got behind our purpose and believed in us. If you consider the well-knowns that left, well no offense to them (and this is my ego and no one else's speaking) many of them weren't well-known before they got into 9rules. We never sold ourselves out just to get a well-known blogger into 9rules. We never backed down from what we believed in. That I can be proud of.

If you want the well-known go find some place that is offering a shit ton of money to people because that is their only purpose. 9rules is for content and there is no well-known status or pricetag for that.

But can we get whatever seat at whatever top? Damn right we can and we will. We wouldn't be working on this otherwise.

Powerful reply there Scrivs. I've always felt an ambiguity towards this "cult" of the "better-known" in 9r (whatever that indeed means), and their sometimes strong reactions to anything that happened with 9r — whether they were (still) in or not.

Before anyone hammers me for details or specific links to notes: I'm speaking in general here.

Perhaps "jumping the shark" is too strong a verdict here as well. From that Wikipedia article Ryan linked to:

(jumping the shark is: the moment when...) fans sense a noticeable decline in quality, or feel (that the show) has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm

That is harsh indeed. Decline in quality? Too many changes?

But I'm not sure that's what Ryan meant. What I read between the lines here, I do want to try and rephrase, in hopes that you'll be able to answer it here (and sorry if you did in any of the other posts or notes that have been circulating on the subject):

In what way, and to what extent, were/are you concerned with the impact of a decision like this on the brand 9r? How do you discuss the options, what do you base your decisions on?

I know you and the rest of the team are always very open in notes, posts, podcasts and video streams. Maybe you have indeed addressed it before, maybe you don't want to answer this particular question. But I'm sure it would be interesting what your views, as someone who certainly knows his world and how to work with people and businesses, would be on this issue.

***
Phew, that sounded stilted. Not my original intent. But I suppose it's clear enough ;)

It's a good question Nilsy...errr actually it looks like you asked me about 17 questions in two lines so I'll try my best to reply. This was kind of answered in a podcast we did last week on 3by9 that got messed up so it wasn't published so it makes sense for me to say it over again.

In what way, and to what extent, were/are you concerned with the impact of a decision like this on the brand 9r?

There really is no concern because the 9rules brand started way before Notes, Clips and my.9r. To many people the 9rules brand is and always will be quality sites. Going back to just that only makes the brand stronger to us and I don't think we will be concerned unless our Members stop providing the great content that people are looking for or we can't find anymore great sites (is that possible?).

This doesn't mean that the 9rules brand is exactly that for everyone and there will definitely be a transition period for all of the my.9r people going over to Chawlk. We don't expect everything to just happen instantly and this is one of the reasons I thought it would be beneficial to open things up before everything is done at the site so people get used to it. We believe that Notes and Clips can stand well enough on their own and Chawlk will quickly develop into its own wonderful brand.

What bothered us and is probably the main reason for this switch is that the 9rules brand became too many different things to the point no clear message ever came across.

How do you discuss the options, what do you base your decisions on?

I would like to tell you there is a deep process, but really we all just make our own observations. Someone notices something we bring it up to the other two and have a little meeting about it. This idea was actually in my head for a couple of weeks before I brought it up to Mike and Tyme because I wanted to make sure I wasn't jumping the gun on anything. Over time it just became more and more clear that this was the move to make and was in the best interests of everyone involved in 9r.

Is it a bit crazy to simply pick up and move 90% of the site over to a new domain? Hell yeah. It is crazy to change directions to an extent and reverse over 18 months of work on one site? A tad. I know some other sites and companies that should do something like this, but are simply too scared to make a change. We've always done what we thought was in the best interests of 9rules. We don't always make the decisions that will make us rich because again, we look out for the best interests of 9rules first and maybe that is our "problem".

I know what Ryan was getting at and I hope I didn't sound harsh in my response. We've never been the type of place to pimp super sites and boast that we have X many sites in the technorati billion so if someone leaves because they didn't feel the relationship was right then they leave. Our message was never we have superbob.com in our Network.

The problem with the jumping the shark view is that when you like something you never want it to change because you like it at that moment. Whether the changes are good or bad you don't care because you want it to be what it was that one moment you liked it. So to some we jumped the shark. It happens. If you run a business do what's best for you and your business without worrying if you are going to fall upon a catchy web phrase.

Damn I promised Mike I would use a food analogy but got too caught up in my last response so let me try it here. You go to a sandwich shop and you always order the turkey with cheese sub with nothing on it. Then one day you walk in and the shop tells you that if you get the turkey sub you have to get it with ham and X toppings on it no matter what. Don't worry though you can take them off if you don't enjoy them. They continue to add toppings to the point where sometimes you can't even taste the turkey anymore.

The ham and toppings are good, but with so much stuff together everything has lost its individual taste. We are going back to the turkey sandwich and using the ham and new toppings to create another sandwich, because again those toppings were good, just too many of them hid the original taste.

In other words, the power of One. A wonderful analogy, Scrivs - 9rules Ali 3: Getting Back To Our Ham.

=)

Yeah if you go to Subway (sandwich shop in the US) you can make a couple thousand sandwiches I think with the different combinations so if I stick with this analogy I'm good for at least another 3,000 sites before I have to think of something else.

Thanks Scrivs. Great answer. I think that is what will make 9rules stand out in any case: the way good decisions come from feeling what to do rather than thinking about it for ages and setting up focus groups or whatever.

I know some other sites and companies that should do something like this, but are simply too scared to make a change.

That is too true.

And that sandwich analogy? Tops. I'll have one now thank you. No mayo though :)

@Scrivs: "Yeah if you go to Subway"

I like Subway sammiches :) and I also like the decision to go back to a tried and true 9rules. This is awesome...

and now to get me some Subway... I'm hungry.

But, and this is me playing devil's advocate, has 9rules already jumped the shark? Over the past year, some of the best known bloggers on the net have removed the leaf from their sites partly in response to the change in direction. Can 9rules reinvent itself and regain it's seat at the top?

As a 9rules member at the time I'm going to take you back a bit....

Remember when certain members who shall remain nameless didn't like the fact we added new members? Do you remember how it felt being a new member? It was an awful experience. Now, new members are welcomed - as it should be in a community. That transition had to happen regardless what the site was. As current members can verify, I've been seriously hounding them about participation. OMG, every DAY I say something....

*In case you don't get that, I haven't mentioned one word since October about participation*

So let's make sure we're all on the same page here. We are not doing this because of the members that left. The guys and I wish them the best of luck on their future endeavors.

The Triad is doing this for the members who stayed. For the members who believed in us. The members that supported us. The members that are there for one another. The members who trust us.

It's our way of saying "Thank you, we luvz you!! XOXOXOXO" but the Triad, remaining cool in our dancing, making up the words singing, can't handle beer for nothing way, express it by giving members their site back. :)

Like I said, I'm playing devil's advocate. I think it's being taken as a disrespectful comment, and that's not how I meant it.

As far as being a portal of member sites, 9rules was at the top, as far as public opinion. It had a sense of exclusivity and constantly delivered quality content, regardless of the name attached.

With the move to the Ali releases, which was around the time I joined as a member, 9rules lost the focus on member content and placed it on my.9rules and notes. I think we've all learned that the two different functions don't necessarily compliment each other.

About getting back to the top: if 9rules wants to be the next Myspace or Virb, a community site with profiles, points, etc., I think that's a losing battle. But, if 9rules wants to refocus on being a portal of collective or dedicated and passionate bloggers, I think they'd stand out in the crowd again.

To address what Scrivs said about the better known names, I would have to disagree on a personal level. The reason I became a 9rules reader was because of the quality content and, at the time, a majority of that was coming from the better known members. I think it's forgetting where you came from to say that those people didn't help establish the general perception of 9rules being a source of top-notch content. Was it also the triad's hard work? Absolutely. But their hard work without excellent content would have been a failure (and vice versa). While you may not have built the site and network for those names, those names helped bring you to where you are today as much as the triad did.

Also, I am not opposed to change. I've stuck with 9rules as a member and reader through numerous changes. I didn't reference jumping the shark simply because of change, but because I felt the changes took away from what I perceived as 9rules core purpose. There was an obvious shift from delivering member content towards community interaction, and, in my opinion, it harmed my experience as a 9rules user. If you know me, you know I was a really active member in notes for a good long time, so I gave it a shot. I gave it multiple shots even.

About what Tyme said: yes, we I became a member, there was a stink about the quantity of sites added, but I never felt a personal attack about my site being added in. I think most of the complaints were that there were too many sites added, not over the quality of specific sites. I don't remember the final tally for round 5, but it was a large number. I think existing members felt like they wouldn't get the same exposure with all the new additions.

It's like I said in a previous note: what it all boils down to is the fact that 9rules is a business. People like to treat it like it's a public service and Mike, Tyme and Scrivs do all of this for the betterment of society. But that's not realistic; they have to live and have mouthes to feed (even if it's their own). They do this because they are good at it and because it's profitable for them. I think that the shift in Ali, with moving towards more of a community feel, was the triad making a decision that they thought would help them grow 9rules and the revenue stream but, I don't know that that happened. But, regardless, Scrivs, Mike and Tyme are doing what they feel is best for the business, which does encompass what they feel is best for the remaining members. And, as always, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it turns out.

My point overall was this: while I support moving back to a member content focused site, will it instantly recapture the place 9rules held prior to muddying the water with all of the other features? Or was 9rules as well respected as it was because of the general respect for those well known members? There are some fantastic sites and writers in 9rules now, but their blogs aren't as well known and don't have the traffic of more established bloggers. Whether or not you admit it outright, that did impact 9rules over the past few years.

Anyone who knows me personally knows a couple things about me:
1) I can be opinionated, and I'll speak my mind freely.
2) Even if I'm speaking my mind, I try to do it in a manner that's respectful.

If this came across as disrespectful to Scrive, Mike or Tyme, then I apologize. I'm not representing any of this as solid fact; these are my opinions and an opinion by definition is subjective.

Ryan - I knew what you meant but what most people do not know was about the discord that happened between 9rules members, that continued for months after Round 5. I tested it by not doing another round, not announcing members and only adding one or two sites here and there - same reaction. Keep in mind if we listened to those members, you (and everyone else after Round 3 - because that is when the gripes started that I know of) would not have been a member. :(

With Round 5 we received over a thousand submissions, only 134 (approximately) were accepted and we have 30+ communities (and all of the 134 were not added). That's not a lot of sites considering the large amount of communities we have. 9rules aggregates quality content. We have some large communities but we also have some that needed members. People judged by the number of sites added without consideration at all where those members were being placed.

We explained in the SuperStream we added Notes to replace Featured. Members wanted Featured articles, said they would write them but didn't (that was a lot of work but we implemented what was asked). Anyone could post a note, it kept communities fresh and gave people a reason to visit communities (new content) which would eventually flow over to member sites. For those that remember Featured, they remained dormant for months. Remember, at that time we had some communities that were very small and unless those members updated often there was no reason for people to visit it.

So there was logic to why we did the things we did. We explained it all in the SuperStream. And to make it clear, those that left we don't have any gripes with at all. Hell, Snook (along with Mr. Music Man Ozone42) were naming songs in the SuperStream. Even Krug was there. David Peralty, who started a competing site, chilled with us, so there isn't any animosity on our part. We had a great time and we hope everyone enjoyed themselves.

Overall, we're happy to be making the transition, members are happy we are making it. Just happiness all around. And there is one LONG TIME member coming back (who might not even know about this transition haha)...good times. :)

When we say we're moving back to pre-notes/my.9r style 9rules... how far back are we talking?

CL's and Featured Articles back or simply content by community back? I'm a bit lost but glad to see change.