Chawlk

1. Drawar
2. Fenxy
3. Decaflon
4. Two Credits
5. Wriging
6. Loose Suits
7. Chixe
8. Dud3s
9. Wing Colors

 

Irregardless is a double negative, so you're asking people to consider their beliefs and religion.

Regardless of my beliefs or religion, there is no such thing as a sinner because sin is defined by religion. At least that's to the best of my knowledge, I'm open to the possibility of being wrong though.

With regard to my beliefs and religion, everyone is a sinner because we all commit evil acts, think evil thoughts, and have desires we don't wish to fulfill.

*DISCLAIMER: Don't answer this question unless you have a legitimate answer. I'm not looking to debate anything, I'm not asking out of any agenda. Please.

If you have no agenda, and you're going to be judging people's answers based on some form of "legitimacy", why even ask the darn questions? It really seems like the dictionary can provide you with all that you're seeking out of these things. Nonetheless, I hope my answers above provided you with what you're looking for in some way.

I think before I answer this question...you should answer it first...so we know where you stand.

I don't believe in divine law, so there is no reason for me to even define sin. Legitimate answer is pretty subjective and it is pretty hard to answer questions like this without a debate

I'm with LorriM on this one... what's YOUR answer.

Last post was a fishing expedition so... what's your opinion?

Does it matter where the OP stands? Will that change your answer?

Malice: Intentionally harming someone or seeking to do so. That's broad on purpose.

Initiating force on another to get them to submit to your will for any reason other than defening yourself or loved ones.

On the flip side of that, letting someone or something else control your will and set your values.

I want to know what you've been told or why you've been told you're a sinner, because I want to understand how or what has been told to people.

@Bartoneus: Your language skills far surpass mine- thanks.

Here are a few reasons I was told I was a sinner:

I had long hair.
I have blue hair.
I have earrings.
I listen to rock music.
I had sex before I was married.
I practiced magic (not the card tricks either).
I used drugs
I used alcohol
I rebelled against my parents.
I have tattoos.

Straight from the rulers on "building a good discussion"

Everyone loves to ask questions, but even more so they love to read your answer to your question. Now we can't always answer our own questions, but that doesn't mean we can not give an opinion on them. Too often do I see "what is your favorite color" type questions and the person asking is not giving the other Notes users their answer. When people see you are willing to take the time to answer your own question, they are much more inclined to answer your question as well.

It usually helps to think of a note as a physical conversation. If you walk up to someone and shove an opinion in their face and stand there gawking at them as if you're expecting a response, does that make a good conversation starter?

Usually if you want someone to engage in a note you express at the very least, your opinion on the subject. At least that way you have expressed an interest in your own topic.

I had long hair.
I have blue hair.
I have earrings.
I listen to rock music.
I had sex before I was married.
I practiced magic (not the card tricks either).
I used drugs
I used alcohol
I rebelled against my parents.
I have tattoos.

Sounds to me like you've been talking to the wrong people.

I've been told I was a sinner for lots of reasons, that's a very different question. There are far too many to list and/or remember. It really depends who's telling me, it can be polar opposite if it's a christian or a muslim... but really those are the only people who call other's sinners as far as I know, and with muslims it's usually infidel anyway.

I think my favourite was the fire and brimstone preacher who used to come to our college and call all the girls who walked by whores. To him we were a sinner simply because we were young and not listening to him.

I've been told I was a sinner before and I just blew it off... just as you pointed out, to many people simply EXISTING is a sin so I lose right out of the gate.

I've been told I was a sinner for daring to go to a Mardi Gras parade, looking at a nude photo, partaking in a drawing class where a nude was present, drinking a beer, etc. etc. etc.

See now we're getting into great discussion!

The bible clearly states that everyone is a sinner. Everyone has sinned, and that everyone will sin no matter what. Jesus died as penance for every human being a sinner, and thus we are forgiven of our sins by God. The idea is not that sinners are bad people, it's that humans are not perfect and you cannot expect any human to be perfect.

It has been misconstrued over time, often into a list of things that are strictly enforced as "thou shalt not lest ye be a sinner and condemned to hell". The bible also clearly states that in God's view all sin is equal, sin is sin, and that a murderer is forgiven through Jesus the same as an adulterer the same as a common thief.

Don't even get me started on how this all plays into my "inclusive rather than exclusive" ranting!

@Bartoneus: Your language skills far surpass mine- thanks.

Finally you're having a sense of humor about things, thank God!

What makes a person a sinner? In the end, their own convictions, at least when it comes to this side of the grave. Deep down, we all consider ourselves good, even when we're not. (We judge ourselves by our intentions; we judge others by their actions.)

Am I a sinner? No.
Have I sinned? Yes.

To say that you are a sinner because you have sinned is like saying that you're failure because you have failed, or that you are writer because you've written, or that you're right on because you're RightOn. If history determines destiny, then yes, 'having sinned' equates you to being a 'sinner'. But then, I've never been one that believes much in history determining destiny.

nice subliminal message there Gnorb ;)

I had long hair.
I have blue hair.
I have earrings.
I listen to rock music.
I had sex before I was married.
I practiced magic (not the card tricks either).
I used drugs
I used alcohol
I rebelled against my parents.
I have tattoos.
How sad.

I've never in my life been told I was as sinner.

For those who do not use The bible as their guide it really doesn't matter what The Bible says anyway. I get this picture in my head of "Carrie's" crazy mother when I hear the word sinner, so the word repels me.

*heh* Thought you'd appreciate it, Ri-- err... James.

Ozone42: At 64-years old, I am my own person, decide how to answer questions from others on my own, have my own mindset, and state my own opinions, feelings and thoughts, not based on OP answers. I didn't want to respond to the question until I knew brandonrichards' answer...plain and simple. I wanted to hear his opinion, thoughts, feelings on the question he asked.

There you go.

I'm really surprised no one has pulled out the dictionary definition yet, maybe because it's obvious:

a person who sins; transgressor.

@Gnorb: It's very handy to only be a sinner when you're in the act of sinning, and not before or afterward. Certainly if you fail you are not necessarily a failure, but if you look into the semantics here:

A failure is one who has failed. Failing is typically an end all be all, if you're a failure you're considered (or consider yourself) done with no chance to suceed in the future.

If you define sinner in the same way, one who has sinned, then we are definitely all sinners. Being a sinner does not mean you are always sinning, but that you have and will sin again. Thinking selfish thoughts can be considered a sin, but all too often people only look at what are considered the seven deadly ones, or basically the most major ones in the average person's view, and do not look beyond them.

If you look up the origin of the word sin, one of them is from old Greek and it means "to miss the mark" - used in Archery when an arrow fell short of the target. Many times it is translated as this meaning, otherwise it is not something to be wholly condemned or beaten out of someone, it is simply a falling short of what God expects of you and of what is right in the cosmic sense of the universe.

I don't judge others as to whether they are sinners or not. In fact the word "sinner" is not part of my vocabulary (other than this post), and never has been. I never used it in conversation with my children, parents, other family members or with friends, etc.

I was once told I was a sinner by the fact of my birth. That was decades ago. Did I believe it? Definitely not, not then or now.

Bartoneus,

If you use the dictionary definition there, then how do you reconcile that with original sin? Of course a newborn can't have sinned yet, but most christians hold that we are born as sinners. It doesn't mesh.

That's the first time I've heard of sin as being a synonym for imperfect. That fits a lot better with the concept of original sin, and I could come close to buying the philosophy that way.

For the record though I think the way most christians preach original sin is one of the worst crimes ever committed against humanity. I rank it up there with the holocaust. But most christians don't equate sin with imperfection, they equate it with a crime, or evil.

i'm with you on original sin there Ozone... talk about a load of horse squeeze.

Bartoneus: As a Christian, and I'm assuming you are, what is it you're saying God expects that you're falling short in?

Just a note that my answers / replies are often incomplete thoughts, this one especially:

I view Original Sin this way, certainly an infant does not sin, but can you truly look at any infant and say at that time, "this child will never sin in its life"? Are any of us perfect enough to never sin?

@LorriM: It really is an unfortunate situation when people will prosecute someone by calling them a sinner, especially for the reason of simply the situation they were born into. What I'm getting at though is that sinning, sin, and being a sinner are not things to fear or condemn. I do admire you very much though, at least by what you say on 9rules you live a very peaceful, accepting, and wholesome life. (may come off as sarcastic, but i swear it's not)

@Ozone: One of the biggest things to consider is that the bible does say that everyone is a sinner, and seeing that there are very good people in the world you have to consider what it means by sin.

Everyone: Please do not start thinking that because I say everyone is a sinner that I am very pessimistic, sad, and depressed all the time. It is simply that I do not see sin as the end-all evil that it is commonly treated as. I actually believe in the inherent goodness of humanity and almost always treat things optimistically!

I understand your point there bartoneus but you are by far the ONLY person I've ever heard describe it that way.

99% of the time I get the "we're all screwed and evil from the get go, you have to beg your ass off or be damned to hell" line.

@Brandon: I would say that I fall short of what God expects in every way. If you view that as a negative thing, think about having a parent who expected everything of you, but never chastised or scolded you when you did not live up to it but forgave everything instantly. This parent expects everything from you because they feel you are capable of it all.

Not positive that I've worded that in the best way, but hopefully it comes through despite that.

@RightOn: I feel that you've been done a huge disservice, as have many others, by the representation of religion throughout your life.

@Bartoneus

I could not agree with your last point more!

I feel that you've been done a huge disservice, as have many others, by the representation of religion throughout your life.

@Peroty: I imagine many people would agree with it, however because someone has only tasted rotten fruit does not mean that all fruit is rotten.

@Bartoneus,

That's cool. I don't really agree with you, but I don't have a problem with your take on it either. It does come back around to what you define as sin, and I don't align with what the bible says on that regard, so I do believe it's entirely possible for someone to live without sin, but perhaps it's unlikely.

I think defining any particular act as a sin can quickly get you into rather sticky situations. I think some actions are good, some are bad; it all depends on context and your intentions. Examples:

1A) Not really needing it at all, you go to a store and steal a DVD player. A bad act? Sure. Stealing is wrong, right?

1B) Due to circumstances you cannot control, you, your wife, and kid are well on your way to starvation. Your one option is to go and rob some food from a store. Wait - did I say stealing was wrong? Crap.

2A) You really hate your coworker. You kill him. This is a bad act, no further information needed.

2B) Some guy breaks into your house and tries to assault / murder you and your family. You fight back and end up killing the guy. Sin? Not sin? But wait, I thought murder was a sin...

Certainly, there are some things which are "bad", period, such as rape. But most of the things that end up being labeled as sins - well, there's always more to it. Context, context, context. I think a better idea is to judge each act based on the circumstances at hand, not by some divinely handed down mandate that says "do this, don't do that."

I look at it as a relational thing. It makes best sense when looked at in comparison to your relationship with your spouse (if you don't have one, use your imagination).

If you want to have a good relationship with your spouse, you love them. You do things for them. You spend time with them. You give them gifts from your heart. You encourage them and tell them how much you love them. You sacrifice your own intentions for them. You romance them. The goal is to simply love them. When you go contrary to that love, that is sin.

Can we all agree that engaging in a romantic relationship with somebody other than your spouse is cheating? I'm pretty sure. How about lying to them? What about using their gifts to you for personal attacks like taking them and putting them in the microwave and melting them (long story)? How about abuse, verbal, emotional, physical or sexual? Would you consider those sins? Of course. And yes, there are various other things that could easily be included.

This is a relational description in the contexts of spouses. But it exists in all relationships. In Song of Songs, you could see an allegory that compares the relationship of husband/wife to God/His people. I would support that idea.

If I sin against God, it is similar to me sinning against my spouse but with greater gravity.

@Bartoneus

I need to find a good fruit vendor. I think my girlfriend may be just that.

@Josh: If you look back at a lot of what I've said, you really don't get into sticky situations like you say. Killing is a sinful act, you would define it as a bad act and so would I, even thinking about killing someone can be construed as a sin. The problem is when you constitute being a sinner with either a physical or metaphysical concept of going to jail. If you kill someone for self defense, you may not go to jail like you would if you murder someone in cold-blood, but EITHER way the act of killing is going to affect you in a negative way.

The concept is to strive to live without sin, but to know that this is something that no human being can accomplish. Again I'm tired and cannot get into the huge discussion about this that I'd like to, also it appears Brandon is not around or is simply observing as we psuedo-hijack his note. Sorry Brandon!

This is a good conversation and my belief, which is a biblically based one is this:
Sin is the spiritual death and lack of relationship with God, brought about by the freewill of one man.

I also believe this means even babies. The bible states that there are none righteous, no not one. Righteousness is being in right standing with God, without sin. This righteousness comes from accepting Christ's righteousness because He is perfect and is the life and he is in right standing with God. He is sinless because he was born through a virgin birth (no man involved).

Now as a man I still have a freewill, I can choose now life or death.

Thoughts?

I don't know if it was intended or not, but you just implied women can be without sin.

@Ozone42: I didn't mean to imply that at all.

To address that women are also born into sin the same way men are, the roots of which are Adam's sin, the first human male.

This is a good conversation and my belief, which is a biblically based one is this:
Sin is the spiritual death and lack of relationship with God, brought about by the freewill of one man.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one :). By your standards, I would be sinning around the clock, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Yes but you said because no man was involved in the birth of Jesus, he's perfect and sinless. Yet a woman was involved, who was not sinless.

On one hand your doctrine implies that sin is a hereditary disease of sorts, your ancestors sin, so you automatically have to. Yet it doesn't apply to Jesus, even though he was born of a woman as well.

I'm implying that because of the spiritual death of Adam was due to not obeying God's only commandment, we are all spiritually dead because of Him and we because of him are 'sinners'. Eve wasn't even created when God gave Adam the one commandment. This spiritual death is THE only sin as God told Adam, not Eve:

Genesis 2: 16-17
"You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

That's fine, but you didn't address the contradiction I was pointing out.

Except for this comment to your Note, I have never used the word 'sinner' nor labeled anyone else that, either.
Please realize, Brandonrichards, the word and entire concept is part of the New Testament only and most defintely not part of the Old Testament. I am Jewish and my way of thinking is that man and women are not born in sin.

auburn: that's very interesting to me please explain what you believe being Jewish and how it relates to the Old Testament Adam, Abrahamic Covenant etc.

Deja vu...

Funny Peroty, just being inclusive and coming from someone who is Jewish I'd like to know their opinion wouldn't you?

@brandonrichards: Unless I'm reading incorrectly, auburn gave their opinion.

If that's accurate I like that version a lot better auburn.

I've never understood why "fear" was such a key player in Christianity (and a LOT of major monotheistic religions). I have my theories but they would more than likely just tick people off.

On one hand, RightOn, it seems that the idea of "fear" is used in order to get people to submit. Now whether that is to submit to a God or to other people who supposedly represent God is another story.

You're right, though. It either ticks people off if they have any sense of self or if they don't, it gets them to submit to life in general--rendering them paralyzed by that fear.

It's really unfortunate.

RightOn: What do you mean by fear? As in someone telling you if you don't do a certain thing, you're going to hell?

@brandonrichards: I'm not RightOn, but I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he's talking about. By extension, I think he's saying that often in monotheistic religions, the god is often viewed as more of a punisher than anything. "Do this or you're going to pay for your transgressions."

Josh hit the nail on the head... but it DOES cross over into polytheism as well.

Just look at the old stories of Zues etc... if you didn't "please" the gods, your ass was grass.

Or the old saying "Put the fear of God in someone".