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I think it's just one of those things. As a child if you're bitten by a big black dog, you'll be scared of them. Once bitten twice shy and all that.

I think the same logic applies. The terrorists decided to brand themselves as muslims (despite their actions being so far removed from the muslim faith it's unreal) and therefore that identity has stuck with terrorists altogether.

Muslims aren't bad people in the same way Christians aren't bad people, aesthists aren't bad people, etc. But some are and that's what tarnishes the entire community.

Just my $0.02

Muslims aren't bad people in the same way Christians aren't bad people, aesthists aren't bad people, etc. But some are and that's what tarnishes the entire community.

A lot of people have forgotten this kind of thinking, they go on to assume that all people are inherently bad and slowly lose hope. It's always refreshing to see people with a good outlook like this.

@gangsta: Humanity is by practice xenophobic, and being typically rational beings we tend to search for justification of these feelings, no matter how irrational that justification really is.

Bartoneus: I'm glad you overlooked my mis-spelling of "atheists".

Ultimately I believe people are good. 95% of the people I meet (irrespective of their background) are nice, friendly, helpful and just (for want of a better word) normal.

I've known muslims, I've known Jehovah's Witnesses, catholics, hindis, you name it. No one cared that I was an athiest and they were all lovely people.

Sure the media may distort things and I may not believe in religion myself, but because the terrorists claimed to be "muslim" it gives them this identity that unfortunately correlates onto everyone who claims to be of the same faith.

Although (like I said earlier) those terrorists were as much muslims as they were smurfs.

The media definitely distorts things. That's the media's job (at least they think so.) They will tell you the most sensationalist stories to keep your attention, and skim over the perfectly normal stories which vastly outnumber them.

I think the reason it seems like there are more crazy muslims than crazy christians is because of the number of countries which are primarily muslim, and the socio-economic levels of those countries. I'll agree it does SEEM that more atrocities are coming out of those parts of the world... but I really don't think that's a function of Islam, but rather poverty, ignorance, and conflicts that have been going on for many generations.

I think the reason it seems like there are more crazy muslims than crazy christians

You really think that's true? I had it the other way around.

I guess I just read Reddit too much.

Yeah seopher I'm with you, after reading Reddit for a few weeks you definitely see there are crazies in all religions, especially the most popular ones.

True that Mike, I think Reddit has a big anti-christian/anti-religion vibe anyway. So I think the commentary that supports the news just builds on that too.

Still, there are crazies everywhere.

I don't think it's "crazies" in general that are leading to the bad rep that the press and political groups are placing on Muslims in general.

When you have a segment of a group doing something evil in the name of the whole, and they make up a pretty large and vocal segment of your base, then you're more than likely going to be cast in a bad light...

If there were thousands of people being murdered on a daily basis, in the name of Christianity at the hands of bombers and terrorists and the leaders of Christianity did not stand up and distance themselves from these morons, then you can't blame others for casting the WHOLE in a bad light.

I was called a racist last week by a guy who sees my stance on illegal immigration as bigoted because to him, it's all about Hispanics and no one else so my motives HAVE to be racist in nature. According to him, there are some in the debate who ARE self proclaimed racists, so by proxy, this means I am a racist.

Anyone who knows me, knows that is not so, yet because I share ideologies, on a general level with a racist person, I can't NOT be a racist.

Like they say a lot in the media, Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims...

While I wouldn't say ALL terrorists are Muslims either, those waging a fight against us at this current moment all CLAIM to be, so...

I have no problem with any religious beliefs... until they cross into physical or mental harm to others of a different system of beliefs.

I don't know RightOn, I don't think Islam should be grouped with terrorism at all. Sure *most* of the terrorists claim to be muslim but they're 98% male too - that doesn't mean I'm suspicious of males in general.

A really bad analagy but do you get my point? And at what point do we stop being objective and compare how many people are dying because of Oil? Sure many people are dying because of what muslims are doing but how many troops in Iraq are Christian? Jews? Islam themselves?

Don't forget that most people who die in Iraq are dying because of the occupation (or as a direct result of the occupation) so it's not unreasonable to say that Christianity (as the prominant religion in the US) is to blame.

Just playing devil's advocate. Not that I believe most of what I've just written, I'm just paraphrasing.

Sure *most* of the terrorists claim to be muslim but they're 98% male too - that doesn't mean I'm suspicious of males in general.

That was my point... just because a radical segment of a group makes a lot of noise, doesn't mean ALL of the rest of them are nuts.

Rock on, we're agreed then!

:)

My youngest son who is 15 yrs. old has a best friend who is muslim. It is hard for him to understand how all muslims can be grouped as terrorists. I would never want him to choose his friends based on their religious preference or ethnic background. I am glad he is associating with all types of people and choosing who his friends are based on common likes and dislikes.

Right liza... I wouldn't want my kids growing up bigoted against anything...

RightOn, what exactly do you mean? Not sure if you are adding sarcasm or not...

I think it's a natural part of identification in the modern world. The media creates a crisis (and I think some of the recent attacks are rightly portrayed as such), and we collectively bond together for a feeling of safety.

I identify with you; we're the same. Those terrorists are different from us normal people. Now, how can we recognize those with a different identity? Through symbols, cultures and practices...

This doesn't mean I agree with singling out "Muslims" as terrorists, though!

Let's put it simply.

I'm a Muslim by birth and I'm agnostic by upbringing and I have gotten so much flak from both sides (living in a Muslim country for most of my life), I tend to understand why the media and people view Muslims as the bad guys. I have had the displeasure of meeting fanatical Muslims that would be happier to see every unbeliever wiped clean from the planet.

I have had fanatical Christians single me out simply because I am either Muslim by birth or even worse a scientist that puts logic ahead of their good book (namely evolution, pro-choice and all that jazz).

The thing is, the more I've been out there, the more I realize that it's not just Muslims that are fanatical, it's other religions as well. It's just that, when fanatics meet, they tend to push at each other buttons escalating the problem. What they do after that is based on their culture behind it. Christians opt for aggressive evangelism. Muslims opt for a more physical approach. Not hard to see why based on the misinterpretations of the culture which helped carry the seeds of the belief in the beginning.

On a lighter note, what's a Buddhist terrorist got to do to prove a point? Set himself on fire and leave us with our own shit?

I'm wary of generalizations of any kind. Just because I live in a rural area does not mean I share all characteristics with the stereotype of 'rural folk'. Just because of my job does not automatically mean I am a 'bleeding heart'. In the same way, to generalize all terrorists as fanatical Muslims makes no sense to me either.

to generalize all terrorists as fanatical Muslims makes no sense to me either.

well if they're screaming islamic phrases before committing terrorist acts what are we supposed to assume they are? hindu?

well if they're screaming islamic phrases before committing terrorist acts what are we supposed to assume they are? hindu?

*cough* Timothy McVeigh was Catholic... *cough*

At any rate, I can quickly make this all better for everyone. The media sensationalizes to the point of lying, so if your little Bullshit Detector goes off, it's probably right or within ballpark range of being so. If your Bullshit Detector never goes off, you need to read more.

I don't think we've had one point in history yet, where a strong majority of the world's population hasn't been fooled by something, even many things. That's probably because so much of the world watches the news, rather than reading some of it and more books, places where you'll always find more than 30 seconds' worth of a story.

Someone who wants Muslims to be blamed. It's a conspiracy I tells ya!! :)

leliathomas,

You know.. I see just as much BS in written news works on and offline as I do on the US and UK networks.

You know.. I see just as much BS in written news works on and offline as I do on the US and UK networks.

Sometimes, but you have a better chance of getting some truth when the story is longer than a few sentences. I find that televised news often leans more on generalizations than written news, because it is fast-paced and needs to get to a point as quickly as possible; this usually results in appeals to emotion or popularity. It's harder to come to a conclusion about a 30-second snippet, giving you little time to research its arguments/statements.

I stand by the theory, though, that the more well read you are, the less conned you'll be, all around. I think such a theory is proved true when one looks at the countries with the most illiterate populations and see what their socioeconomic and governmental problems are. The more literate the population, the freer the people are. The more well read the population, the better off they are at detecting what is true, false or in between, in the same way that one learns what is reasonable and unreasonable documentation when doing research on a specific topic.

*cough* Timothy McVeigh was Catholic... *cough*

yeah, and that was what, 15 years ago? I guess I could list the 1000+ terrorist attacks committed by muslims since then, but really, I think we both know your point is crap.

@Mike:

Yeah seopher I'm with you, after reading Reddit for a few weeks you definitely see there are crazies in all religions, especially the most popular ones.

I doubt that religions are hogging ALL of the crazies.

I think if you were to compare the number of radical muslims that engage in suicide bombing to the number of muslims with less extreme beliefs you would find it to be staggering small percentage under one percent.

I find it shameful for the social racism that the media has imparted on society in its selective exposure of events related to people of the muslim faith. We have been spoon fed it for decades.

What I find myself pondering is whether peace is ever possible between Israel/Palestine. I believe the leaders may succeed with a peace settlement, but the masses I believe will always resist it and the fighting will continue.

Why is this? What middle ground can be reached with extremists on both sides that results in peace and an end in killing? Tough questions.

I don't believe peace is possible between any religions of conflicting beliefs. Both Muslim and Christian doctrines teach about peace, forgiveness, non violence, etc, and yet both religions have more than a small percentage that think it is alright to kill and go to war. The percentage of those that actually ACT is much smaller of course, but you do not have to look far in either religion to find those that think their extremists are acceptable.

Peace? Between religious fundamentalists? No can do.

The thing about people too far gone in their beliefs that they are willing to kill for it, is that it's highly unlikely they are going to just stop everything and listen to reason. Most of the time they don't listen to rational paths of logic, let alone other people's rationalizations on what can be the better option.

The problem with that in this case is that more people are willing to see the bad side of a small percentage of fanatics compared to a larger group of people who make up the decent lot.

Yes, Muslims have gotten a lot of flak lately, but how is that any different from decades ago? How is that different from the Catholic and Protestants fighting between each other? How is that different from when the Muslims and Christians fought each other for some land they believe is holy? So what if something was 15 years ago or 1500 years ago? It's just the same thing done over and over again for the sake of some belief.

The only difference now is that people care more about the outlook of things than the actual belief of it. Thanks to the media and a bunch of people who care about their own belief enough to kill for it. Islam has gotten a lot of bad press.

It doesn't mean that fundamentalists in other religions are just as bad.

yeah, and that was what, 15 years ago? I guess I could list the 1000+ terrorist attacks committed by muslims since then, but really, I think we both know your point is crap.

Ah, attacking the argument when it's not to your liking, rather than arguing the points. Very mature. Mind you, your original idea that all terrorists are Islamic is false if I can name anyone who has committed an act of terror and was not a Muslim. I did (and the fact that the Oklahoma City Bombing occurred 13 years ago is completely irrelevant, but nice try), and so your original argument was untrue. Now you attack me, because you don't like that I brought something up that doesn't line up with your thinking. Poor you.

Perhaps you should take a look at this list of terrorist organizations. As you'll see, there are Christians, Muslims, Jews...and the list goes on. But, of course, in your argument, it is not only that all terrorists must be Muslim, but seemingly that all Muslims must be terrorists. The media fuels your fire, of course, so you must feel comforted by that. What a narrow view of the world.

But, honestly, I guess this all boils down to what you consider terrorist behavior. If you only consider what Muslim terrorists have done to be "true terrorism," then I suppose all terrorists are Muslims in your eyes. Definition-wise, however, terrorism has nothing to do with religious affiliation. Terrorism means "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion." Terror has two definitions worth mentioning: (1) a state of intense fear and (2) violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands.

If we are to go with just hardcore definitions here, I can think of many acts of terror in the US and in other places around the world, and they are certainly not all done by Muslims. (Or are we to consider acts of violence against abortion clinics--whether we agree with their principles or not--anything short of an act of terror?)

But I digress. I think your argument fails easily with that one list that I linked to, so I'll end things here. You can go on believing what you want.

I never labeled all terrorists as muslims, I only pointed out that the one's that scream islamic phrases are obviously muslim in response to someones strawman argument that some people "generalize all terrorists as fanatical Muslims". Sure there are non-muslim terrorists but by and large the majority of deadly terrorist acts committed today are by muslims.

"Sure there are non-muslim terrorists but by and large the majority of deadly terrorist acts committed today are by muslims."

Maybe so but I find that they,being the media exaggerate when it comes to the so called "terrorist acts"done by muslims.And sometimes i find that when its other people from other religions commiting some other terrorist acts it doesn't matter as much!

Take George Bush for example he's sending people to muslim countries to do god knows what and kill innocent beings by starting wars...how do u expect the muslims to not fight back?AND why isn't the media interested in that and all...?

gangsta_lurrve,

Check the media out of the USA for once. Al Jazeera, BBC, etc. Yeah in wars innocents are killed. It is tragic. That's not why US troops are away from home, though. The media in most nations realizes this.

The more well read the population, the better off they are at detecting what is true, false or in between, in the same way that one learns what is reasonable and unreasonable documentation when doing research on a specific topic.

Which does not bode well for the ability of US citizens to detect bullshit down the road.

We are way to used to sound bites here, some even think those sound bites are the news, and wouldn't have a clue as to where to go to check their facts.

Though the terrorism we hear about recently is usually perpetrated by Jihadist terrorists, there is a lot of terrorism, as noted above, that we never hear about - or barely hear about. I bet if every little terrorist act in the world was noted the split would be closer to fifty- fifty, though some reports would give Jihadist' credit for only thirty five or forty percent of the terrorist acts in the world.

I believe the fatal results for terroristic acts, the lead does belong to Islamic terrorists though.

Maybe so but I find that they,being the media exaggerate when it comes to the so called "terrorist acts"done by muslims.

give me one example of media "exaggeration"

how do u expect the muslims to not fight back?

in what warped world is blowing up school children and innocent people "fighting back"?

You're right Heliophage
i guess wat i'm trying to do is see things from maybe the terrorist's point of view!
but we don't know what goes on in their heads right so maybe they are "blowing up school children and innocent people " for a logical reason that we don't know of.I'm not saying its RIGHT its very wrong commiting these acts for anyone.

There is no "logical reason" to blow up school children, that's like saying "Well there must be a logical reason to rape a 3 year old, right??", no there is no logical reason, the only reason is because that person is batshit insane. period.

We are a part of secular Christian which influences in part of fearing GOD and other religions.

what?