WingColors Thread: One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

RightOn — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:31:47

Ozone, the HUGE problem being that I have heard and read speeches by prominent black leaders that will tell you with a straight face that black people cannot be racist because they lack the institutional authority to be so.

So they're essentially building in a loophole for racist language into their rhetoric and building up a massive take down weapon to slam anyone with a harsh opinion.

There is no doubt that this campaign will include race but it's pointless in my opinion to bring it up. It's not like Obama CHOSE to be a black man, so to me it serves no purpose in qualifying or disqualifying him for the oval office.

It was the same crap with Hillary, if you stood in opposition to her, you were a sexist pig, no questions asked.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

Ozone42 — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:28:09

How can race not be an issue? There are a lot of racists in every race! Some are pro-race racists, some are anti-race racists, some just hate everyone that's not like themselves.

Race will definitely be an issue.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

cooper — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:47:26

I can't help, after reading so much really hateful commentary on various sites - even the WAPO and NYT articles are full of it, that race will be a factor/issue and some will try to insert it into the whole process, though he will try to keep it out. It is unbelievable to me how many people out there are still so hateful and racist.

Gnorb is right on perception, and that is clearly because in most cases no matter what someone says when they are running it more often than not does not pan out in the end when - policy is made, so voters go with the rhetoric.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

Ozone42 — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:00:51

A good point Gnorb.

I mean, if you're not a conspiracy theorist or just very bitter, we elected GWB twice, so we liked him well enough at one point.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

Gnorb — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:50:23

@RightOn: What you miss here is that for many, perception is reality. They only have to perceive they like him on order to give him a shot. I know, strange but true. If he starts GWB'ing the rest of the world, then that good feeling's going away, fast. To many, from day 1 there'll be complains of his ineptness. Happens with every president. But to others he's a symbol of hope now, and hope's all they really want at the moment.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

RightOn — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:41:16

Breitbart.com has an article about how the "World welcomes Obama win"... the only problem is that it seems the world seems to be rejoicing an Obama possibility NOT for his policies, or politics, but because of what he is.

"The excitement was less about Obama's foreign policies—which remain vague on many fronts—than a sense that the candidacy of a black American with relatives in Africa and childhood friends in Asia marks a historic moment."

Thus the campaign begins.

I'm REALLY concerned that this campaign is going to be forced into a highly racial arena that it DOESN'T need to go to. There have already been NUMEROUS talking heads and civil rights leaders testing the validity of any hard ball questioning of Obama on racist grounds. I'm really not looking forward to the very real possibility that debate moderators will be tossing softballs his way to avoid the wrath of folks like Jesse Jackson who seem to find racism in the simplest of questions.

It has already happened, don't think it won't get any worse. I just HOPE it doesn't.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

Scrivs — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:25:12

Not that I have anything to add, but you guys make politics seem reasonable. Thank you.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

cooper — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:49:06

I think that is something a lot of people are thinking about actually.

It is unlikely that amazing changes will take place, and I think deep down most people, even those who are into Obama, understand that. Many even would have preferred a progressive candidate - which he definitely is not. It is the hope to get us on a different road most people want, and maybe instigating an interest in the process will in some ways change the process.

I know there appears to be a craze around him, but there have been crazes around other candidates. I heard Reagan had a rather emblazoned body of supporters, though I don't know I wasn't really participatory at that time....

I think the people must be reasonable in their expectations of a candidate who was chosen by the political process we use, and yes there is a danger in some post election disappointment, but I do not fear his potential policy or his ability to choose the correct advisor's in area in which he is lacking.

I actually think Hilary has some of the most rad ass crazy supporters out there.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

fuscom — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 07:40:11

Cooper --

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that Obama will fail as president. My curiosity is what would happen if he does, given the emotional energy invested in him by not only young voters, but arguably all Americans? (Strip out all of the politics, and a person would have to be all but dead not to be inspired by his tone and general message). For instance, take the disappointment and move to "independent" of many republicans based on the dropped balls and failed policies of the party and this administration, especially. Bush has an ounce to the gallon of charisma and likability of Obama.

I find this craze that surrounds him like a double-edged sword. Inspiring and troubling all at the same time. It's the makings of all the greatest ironies ever penned.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

cooper — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:58:32

McCain: Does that man ever look anyone in the eye? His eyes constantly rove from side to side as he fidgets.

Clinton: I won't go there.

Obama; Good gracious speech.

I think it illogical to assume because one is a hugely successful and charismatic orator that one will probably be unsuccessful as president just because there are other charismatic successful orators who were disasters – there are probably as many hugely successful charismatic orators who were successful.

I don't think people think he is the second coming of JFK.

I get the comparison to Carter because of the similarities of the times surrounding his election, and their level of prior experience ( I do think life experience has to be taken into account though), and I know Carter was a disaster from the standpoint of foreign policy, and that seems to be the biggest concern people have about Obama, saying he will have to rely on his advisers.

Yet We've had 8 years of some of the worst foreign policy ever and if you look at McCains voting in regard to it you might be just as concerned as well, and then take into account his self admitting of lacking foreign policy expertise. He will rely on his advisors as well.

I also think if he does nothing else he has instigated the interest of the youngest generation of voters in polities and the countries policies, something which was greatly in need of being reawakened because the lack of interest in what is going on in government is what allowed government to get where it is.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

RightOn — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:11:44

Re: Obama - I'm glad someone else sees him like I do, the second coming of Carter (yet Carter was FAR from charismatic). My only concern is if we get Carter Redux, will 4 years be long enough for the GOP to have a 'come to Jesus' moment and dig up another Reagan.

One thought on the candidate speeches -- you're kidding me, right?

fuscom — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 05:01:37

So I was glued to CNN last night to see what would unfold from the last primaries and the strategies and reactions forward.

After watching the speeches by McCain, Clinton and Obama, I was struck with just one summary thought..."you're kidding me, right?"

McCain -- I was absolutely mesmerized with how completely uncomfortable and forced his whole speech seemed. His forced grin made me feel as though he were trying to sell me ocean front property in Oklahoma, or at least reminded me of the nerdy freshman kid in high school secretly wearing his heart on his sleeve for the high school beauty queen -- and then finding himself face to face with her as a lab partner in biology class. One of the CNN analysts speculated that he is uncomfortable behind a podium...great, I thought. No wonder he wouldn't want to meet with enemy leaders, they'd probably insist they hold public discussions behind podiums.

Clinton -- Talk is she wants to be #2. First rule of business, if you want to be the number 2 in an organization, don't show up the number #1 on his big night or deny him his due. It's pretty much guaranteed she'll be a #2 sh*tload whether Obama puts her on the ticket or not.

Obama -- It amazes me every time he speaks how he can rile up a crowd. He's a charmer, nice looking, intelligent, charismatic. You want to trust him and truly believe his vision will lead you places. Ironic, but I know of a good number of CEOs who come off the same way and most of them are in jail and their companies, stocks and employees are in crumbles. With all this emotional energy invested in him, what if he turns out to be the second term of Jimmy Carter (we are in a similar situation...economic uncertainty, energy crisis, tensions in Afghanistan and Iran) instead of the second coming of JFK? Where does that leave everything?

Unbelievable.