WingColors

Yeah good point. We're so busy trying to clean-up the problems of our current world we may never actually contribute something new. (I'm young so I'm pretending I could be in this new generation lol.)

More like the chickenshit generation as MOST of the people in my age range are committed to themselves alone and could really care less who pushes them around as long as they can do their thing.

Most people I know would hole up this country and isolate us from the world for fear of "irritating" someone or some other country.

I asked my daughter this question. She said (referring to people in their 20s): "Accidentally set off a nuclear bomb because they refused to read the instructions/educate themselves because they think they know everything."

edit: Wow, she is really going on a rant but she has a point. Unless one hunts for the positive achievements the negative things are the ones that dominate the news.

My generation created the iPod and the obesity epidemic.

Give me a break. Are you referring to the same generation that created the Wikipedia? That created a wave of free software and information channels that enables millions of people to share and learn at a touch of a button? The generation that's creating wireless energy devices? Nanotech fabrics and conductors?

Although I do see your point and agree that there's a lot of bullshit around; I still know it's easy to stare only at the negative. That was undoubtedly true for generations before our BSgeneration as well — and the positive may not become apparent until we've gained a few years perspective and dust has settled.

I do think it's a bit much to assume we haven't contributed anything...

Which generation are we talking about here? I'm 23 and I don't think what I'd class as "my generation" has really had all that much time to be getting along with improving the world, however materialistic some of us may or may not be.

On the assumption, we're just casually talking about the current 25-60 chunk of people working and making the world's decisions, I'm not sure we're doing so bad. Capitalistically, we're doing just fine with strong economies, more power to consumers. IT is coming along in leaps and bounds at the rate that I've got no idea how it's going to change my life.

Don't forget that many of these scientific and sociological advances/regressions either have their history in past generations or come from individuals who have worked tirelessly over their life to have such an effect - good or bad.

History has a habit of tinting itself to appeal to your patriotism.

Yes, our grandparents managed to overthrow one of the most evil empires we've ever seen, but by this thread's measure, surely we should also add that they're the same generation that sat by while a country fell into dictatorship, amassing a terminal xenophobia and actioning unjust imprisonment and executions just because of who people were... And only acted after this monster burst at the seams into Poland to slaughter a couple of million Jews.

And generationally speaking, the German soldiers and officers committing these acts were just as much a part of our grandparents' generation, and yet we're not chalking that one up against them as a whole?

Which generation is this? Are we going by 20 years equals a generation?

I'm 27, the vast majority of people I know my age and younger are in quite a bit better shape than the people my parent's age. In most cases I'd say there's a 50+ pound difference. So as far as I can tell the "obesity epidemic" must be just getting started, or is already over.

What has my generation built? Well, the internet. Some of the infrastructure predates us, but the bulk of it is all us. I know it hasn't trickled down to john everyman yet, but the medical sciences have been going nuts over the past few years. Despite all the gripes about affordable healthcare, we (especially in the USA,) have made some amazing advances in improving the quality of human life.

I think one of the reasons we see so much bullshit is simply because there are more people. Populations are growing faster than we have learned how to cope with them effectively on social and economic fronts. There will always be bullshit, it's a matter of learning how to deal with the level of bullshit :) Sometimes we get ahead of it, and sometimes it gets ahead of us. I think we're in the latter right now.

I think one of the reasons we see so much bullshit is simply because there are more people.

Not to mention that aforementioned internet has enabled more people to be heard.

Are you referring to the same generation that created the Wikipedia? That created a wave of free software and information channels that enables millions of people to share and learn at a touch of a button? The generation that's creating wireless energy devices? Nanotech fabrics and conductors?

QFT.

Let's not forget, the generation creating quantum computing, that sequenced the human genome, that sent robots to Mars, that's introducing the world to commercial space travel, and which is laying the groundwork for the technological singularity (which may or may not be a good thing).

/I *hate* that "Greatest Generation" crap. Whatever happened to "The best is yet to come"?
//In every generation there are those who do and the other 99%. Which category you fall in is up to you.
///Listening to my iPod, sucking down on a Starbucks drink as I write. What of it?

Indeed, why do the previous generations get to be defined by the "greatest" (subjectively speaking) things they've accomplished while ours, by default, is defined by the most selfish things we've accomplished?

For shame. Literally. *snort*

The "greatest" generation is always going to be the one ending the soonest because how can you argue with elderly people?

Cheers, Gnorb!

The "greatest" generation is always going to be the one ending the soonest because how can you argue with elderly people?

Why, because they can't hear you? That's not funny, Mike. I mean, sure, if you're trying to be edgy, but c'mon man. That's just over the line.

Actually, I started thinking about this list in reverse:

My great-grandparents' generation destroyed the economy and gave rise to Hitler.

My grandparents' generation brought about the A- and H-bombs, allowing for humans to murder each other more efficiently than ever before.

My parents' generation invented all the fattening foods and pesticides that have made us fatter and unhealthier.

Our generation invented iPods.

Hurray for being the least destructive!

Yet as revenge, my parents' generation sent GW Bush and my grandparents' generation sent Cheney.

Bastards.

To have a point of reference, Wikipedia has the generations broken down.

If a person in the Millennials is complaining about their generation not doing anything, please explain that to me. The oldest in that generation is 26. Just barely able to drink, most still in college and financially dependent on their parents. Sorry, but it is naive to expect the generation that is just getting wound up to have major accomplishments on the same proportion as those more mature (stable in their lives).

According to Wikipedia, it is MY generation that is the slacker, spoiled, cynical generation. But it is my generation that created a lot of the innovation everyone takes for granted today and my generation wouldn't have been able to do that without the accomplishments of the preceding generation.

Respect those before you because without them, you wouldn't be here.

Can you really define a generation while it is still being active or the most dominant? I would think it would take a while to step outside and actually look at the major events that have occurred during our generation to see what really defines us.

You define your grandparents generation as the one that defeated the Nazis. I define it as one that had multiple World Wars and couldn't get over being close minded.

My parents generation? Well they had more wars and started to switch from the closed to open minded state. Scratch that, people just pretended to be open minded. They put a man on the moon, but also let one of our potentially greatest presidents ever (Kennedy) get shot along with great leaders like Martin Luther King.

Grandparents generation showed me hate on a global scale while my parents generation showed me hate on a local one. We define our own generations and trust me when you get older you will probably find the good stuff that has happened and mark that as our generation while our children might say we let 9/11 happen and showed the world that Britney is more important than Iraq.

Which generation is this? Are we going by 20 years equals a generation?

My thoughts exactly. How old is OP? 17?

I like Mike's answer.

Oh and the younger generation is always going down hill.

Defining people by their generation is nonsense. I'm part of Tyme's generation and I was never defined as being a slacker or spoiled or even cynical, because more than being defined by my generation, I was defined by my family, their history, values and experiences.

My father-in-law was a World War II veteran. I never saw him as being great because of the war, but rather I loved him and respected him because of who he was and what he stood for through not only the war, but everything that occurred in history between 1919 and 2006.

The kids today are just as greedy and spoiled and cynical as they were 20 years ago, and they have the opportunity to be just as great and lucky as they were a hundred years ago.

Though the cyber technology is a great thing, there is more to the world than creating iPods and Wikipedia. Like getting the technology to the people who don't have it, after we give them potable water and enough food to eat. There has been some great cyber wars already with governments hacking into other government military databases and vice versa though...

In this country the generations get more ignorant as time goes by, and downward mobility will be the next trend. Upward mobility is already almost gone, according to some of the most noted economist of our time. Maybe we need to figure out how to stop that trend first.

Not sure about that Oli, Britain seems to have a lot of people living in poverty for such a small economically advanced country, and is on the list for the least ambitious young people, most smoking young people, and most drinking and getting pregnant at a young age - young people.

There is a definite trend in obesity, it is not over and is getting much worse. Child obesity here in this country has tripled in the last twenty years.

Another trend I find annoying is calling people twenty- three and twenty four "just kids". Now a days people are just kids until well into their thirties, the excuse for their lack of ambition, being they're still young.

The multiple world wars, for the most part European Wars, which we fought in because we supported changing the hands of power, for our own sake - With WW1. WW2, it's true our grandfathers and great grandfathers did a good thing for the right reason, only we did get in to that a little late. I mean wasn't there some indication we could actually have prevented the slaughtering of all the Jews?

If people of my generation are slackers it is the fault of overindulgent parents, parents who live for their children, parents who think if they don't make it to little John's soccer games with the food and the drinks he will somehow be psychologically harmed. Parents seem to always trying to make their kids what they were not,give them everything they didn't have, and
I think they went a little overboard.

I know plenty of people with ambition, goals and respect for life who do more than party, fill their iPods though, so their are useful people out there.

Though the cyber technology is a great thing, there is more to the world than creating iPods and Wikipedia. Like getting the technology to the people who don't have it

I certainly agree with this point and don't intend to blemish it; just want to add briefly that advancing technology and increasing public access to information is directly related to humanity's ability to solve problems. A very direct example is the One Laptop Per Child project. Another example is easier collection and processing of, to use your examples, obesity and downward mobility data.

hthth: I can see where you are coming from but I'm not a fan of, what has been called by some, the "let them eat cake" approach to solving problems of children in impoverished countries.

A friend of mine published a paper on the dissemination of information via technology in impoverished countries in Africa, and it is more about the systems which allow them to afford to access the information than it is about the computers, as even with computer they have no access for a variety of reasons be they economic or social.

It's a nice notion and will help some, but when you are starving, don't have a roof over your head, have not learned to read and have no other resources available for education - teachers, schools, books, - it really does very little good no matter what the people behind ,what is really a program for economic incentive, say.

Not that there aren't some redeeming qualities to this program.

9rule readers are of several generations, so much of what we perceive is through the cultural eyes of our different age groups. I'm in my 50's so it's my parent's generation that went to college on the GI Bill, entered (arguably created) the middle-class and bought homes. Their children, the Baby Boomers, were defined by Vietnam, civil rights and political assasinations. Some of the above comments to this Note were likely written by their children, now grown and in their 20's.
Each generation had some extremely positive and negative things to add to the culture. It is not at all fair to lump millions of people together who happen to be born in the same 20 year period because we are limited by sweeping generalizations. With this acute awareness, I do think it will be largely up to people in their 20's and 30's to integrate technology into culture in a much more creative way than ever imagined. I'm including photography, music, dance, and all art forms in 'culture' when I say this. There is also room for the legal ramifications (nationally and internationally) of the same being defined and tested.

@cooper

Fair enough, and again I agree. But I wasn't referring only to technologies and information specifically intended for those in need of aid, but rather that technological advances can be beneficial for everyone in the long run.

As with any large problem, everyone in power is required to take action. Technological advances on the richer sides of the world result in such things as open information flow and increased public awareness that there is a problem — thusly increasing the potential of solutions being developed as well as lubricating the processes by which solutions come to exist. Although things such as the Wikipedia are not within the reach of people in poverty, and although spreadsheets are of no use to those that only have breadcrumbs in their cupboard, we can still assume that the increased capabilities of those who do will ultimately benefit those in need.

Without the Western public's interest (read: rich people's funding) for technology, things such as the OLPC project would have a harder time in the making. Similarly, without the Wikipedia (and 9rules) it would be harder for people to learn what problems the world is suffering from and get a chance to unify and take action. That action can involve putting virtual teachers onto the OLPC laptops, loading cheap MP3 players with instructional audio, or collecting money to send humans to go and teach, speak, help in person.

But your initial comment was a sidenote in reference to the fact that there are other things than writing Encyclopedias that need doing. The Wikipedia is not edible — I agree.

We will create whatever we will need, whatever we will want and fix whatever the previous generation mucked up.

To say that the height of our generation are glorified mp3 players and health problems is just poor perception. Maybe we haven't done anything that redefined the human race in one big bang. But as I know and understand it, the rate of information that we have to assimilate on a daily basis is reflected onto the way we govern our own lives.

We've reached a point of saturation and stagnation that we can't keep up with all the new things we create and learn on a daily basis. So what do we do? We create small things that affect the world in small ways.

Whatever most of here have talked about, those are the things we've done. It doesn't change the face of human kind, but it sets a new path for us to travel on should we choose to integrate it in our lives.

The reason why generations are important has little to do with today. Those generation breakdowns (which have been there since the beginning of time) are important to look back at history, how we evolved, etc. The term Baby Boomers is an era. So is BC, AD, etc. The generation breakdown will probably be termed as an era after we are all dead.

I don't see anything wrong with looking at how things evolved and assessing if one has kept up with times. I don't see anything wrong with wondering what your kids will do in their time. I was looking at a show the other night about tribes. In this day and age people are still trading pigs and vegetables as currency. Their right, their life, their world but perhaps if they were more informed of the opportunities available to them (and questioned things) instead of being stuck in a time warp they would prefer to have running water and food in a refrigerator instead of living in a hut and skinning animals for clothes.

@fuscom - I was shocked that our generation had those labels. I work hard for the things I have but I noticed I am becoming cynical. I need to work on that lol. :)

So is BC, AC, etc.

AC? Like... the Air Conditioning or Alternating Current eras?

Haha oops...AC = Always Correct. :)

Sorry guys, but Wikipedia? Come ON.

Wikipedia is a nifty piece of software. But will it make our kids' lives better?

Let me place this in context: I wrote this after a dinner party where we had a discussion on global warming, and I was outnumbered by people who felt it was inevitable, and would cost to much to mitigate it. Note I say MITIGATE, not FIX. The best quote:

"We'll be dead when it's really a problem anyway."

WTF?!!!!

I don't believe in a 'greatest generation'. I DO believe we're missing our opportunities to do something important, because we're too wrapped up in making money, buying toys and paying off ridiculous credit card bills.

We have everything we need, and we're using it to get fat.

Respectfully (really respectfully), don't try to compare Wikipedia the disappearance of the polar ice cap, or Darfur, or the way we fucked up Iraq. And don't blame George Bush for it either. We elected him, and then we let him have our way with us. A Democrat could've done it too.

BTW, I have to say that my sense of despair over this is lessened somewhat by the number of people in 9Rules willing to discuss it.

I wish everyone were like this...

I'm just glad I turned off the TV last night during WifeSwap... the oozing "self obsessed" nature of the people they put on that show reminded me of this note and got me all depressed.

Wikipedia is one thing and indeed it isn't edible, but what about websites such as http://www.kiva.org? It is literally a website which brings capitalism to those in other parts of the world who otherwise wouldn't have access to it. I think it is a superior example of what our generation has done. This website is creating entrepreneurs and family businesses so other people can earn their way to be fed. Even within capitalism, it brings an entire credit system to other parts of the world. The loans given have a 99% repayment rate. Before Kiva, there was no hope anyone would loan these people money (save a 70% APR) to start their own business nor teach them how to maintain or run it. It's more than charity--it's a way for people to get their feet off the ground and make a way of living for themselves ... when it's repaid you loan to others to do the same.

I think there's the dissemination of information that's enabled by the technology our generation has created but on top of that are the talents and abilities the information enables others to act upon. There's less and less of a monopoly on talent. Look at how the music industry backlash is happening (still arguable, I know). Open source is a phenomenon and if our generation is known not for one or two big things and rather for a bunch of small little things that perhaps don't all get recorded in the books then I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It might be because there are too many accomplishments to count.

@RightOn: I hear you - and that's what happens when there's easier access to everything. There's easier access to self-indulgement and also people who will partake in if not support that. Indeed there's so much more BS to sort through but I'm hoping that it's worth it because there's that much good stuff underneath to get to.

I DO believe we're missing our opportunities to do something important,

Ahem.

Again, there are the people who go out and make things happen, and the other 99%. You had a dinner party with the 99%. I suggest you make it a point to find the 1% and help make the world a better place. The 99% will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be preoccupied with their own little world.

Remember that the spectacular failures will always be remembered for their failures. The spectacular successes will always be remembered for their successes. And the rest, the masses, the other 99%... why, they'll be plain forgotten.

You obviously got a call from something bigger than yourself: a cause, a conscience, a god, the universe, whatever. Now are you going to answer it, or are you going to point fingers and wonder why no one else is answering it? Remember: when you point a finger, ten get pointed right back at you. I think you better answer the damn call.

Now, if you're vying for a complete change in the collective consciousness of society... well now, you're fighting human nature there, buddy. The only way to do that is to first master yourself.

Here's a story: an old man sat on the porch crying. His grandson came to him and asked what was wrong. The old man told him "when I was young I wanted to change the world, but couldn't. Then I wanted to change my country, but couldn't. Then I wanted to change my town, but couldn't. Then I tried to change those around me, and I couldn't. Finally, I worked on changing myself. And then everything changed. (Lesson: Change comes from within.)

Work on yourself first, then lead others by your actions. You can't change the world alone, but if you want to do something great you'll usually start alone. Enough people working do something great will certainly yield at least one success story. And only history will be able to properly judge us.

Sorry guys, but Wikipedia? Come ON.
Wikipedia is a nifty piece of software. But will it make our kids' lives better?

The Wikipedia is first of all the largest encyclopedia in the world. I use it everyday for various purposes. Aside from the obvious fact that Encyclopedias educate people — its debut has helped significantly in sparking a wave of open information; ranging from scientific databases to open lectures. Secondly, the Wikipedia is open and free and thusly is opening several new venues for information distribution and usage. For example (and really, just writing this from the top of my head), Freebase, Powerset and Twine are semantic web startups that utilize the categorized information of Wikipedia as a corpus for artificial intelligence powered search and natural language understanding. These kinds of new technologies are the doorstep to a world of better information processing and organization — technologies that are taking the scientific process to new heights for obvious reasons and thereby benefitting humanity.

So yes, of course it will make our kids' lives better. Education tends to do that. But you have to look at the idea from a broader perspective. It's not enough to think about one typical example, where John Doe uses Wikipedia to find out how whether a Cougar has spots or not. When I say the Wikipedia I'm referring to the idea, related projects and subsequent splashes it has made in worldly context. The above examples are only a droplet. This is aside from the fact that my mentioning of Wikipedia was only a droplet to examplify the range of positive advances being made today, in response to your original note (I mentioned several other things, as I'm sure you noticed). Estarla brought up another good and related example and I'm quite sure we could keep counting.

"We'll be dead when it's really a problem anyway."

Yeah, heard something like that more than once. How old were these people? Gnorb has the word:

Again, there are the people who go out and make things happen, and the other 99%. You had a dinner party with the 99%. I suggest you make it a point to find the 1% and help make the world a better place. The 99% will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be preoccupied with their own little world.

Quite right. It's always like this (also amongst those who defeated the Nazis).

Respectfully (really respectfully), don't try to compare Wikipedia the disappearance of the polar ice cap, or Darfur, or the way we fucked up Iraq.

No one was comparing the Wikipedia to that, so I'm not sure what you mean here.

BTW, I have to say that my sense of despair over this is lessened somewhat by the number of people in 9Rules willing to discuss it.

We're a bunch of thinkers here :) Good note, by the way, enjoying the discussion.

@RightOn
That kind of stuff is pretty much why I've stopped watching TV.

@RightOn, @hthth: See now, I stopped watching that show because it wasn't at all what I expected.

Don't ask.

/Yes, it's a joke. Laugh.

Again, there are the people who go out and make things happen, and the other 99%. You had a dinner party with the 99%. I suggest you make it a point to find the 1% and help make the world a better place. The 99% will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be preoccupied with their own little world.

OK, so maybe the real point here is that, with the internets, the 99% is more obvious than before?

Just FYI, I do my best: Did street law, volunteered after the LA Riots, donate thousands from my company to Habitat for Humanity and Conservation International.

But it DOES sometimes feel like a drop in the bucket.

Thanks for listening all...

OK, so maybe the real point here is that, with the internets, the 99% is more obvious than before?

Painfully. How else do you explain Paris Hilton's and Trailer Trash Spears's uncovered cooches getting more press coverage in one week than Darfur did for years?

But it DOES sometimes feel like a drop in the bucket.

What else is the ocean but a bunch of drops? Yet without it life wouldn't be here. This generation's mark will come.

OK.

If everyone in this discussion promises to have kids so we balance out the other 99%, I'll stop whining...

If everyone in this discussion promises to have kids

But they only taste good with barbecue...

We have everything we need, and we're using it to get fat.

Speak for yourself. Everywhere else, a lot of people starve but still try their best not to.

If you have kids first, I might consider following.

@Vidar: I have two, thanks :)

Honestly, I think "Our Generation" - and I mean this in the broadest of terms as I don't really have a generation: clinging to the coattails of Gen-X, and refusing to be lumped in with Gen Why? - is one of dying imaginations.

We're a generation constantly stimulated by media and we're wallowing in it. Instead of inventing new and radical things like this century's electricity, we're modifying current inventions like the computer and cable to serve our laziness.

I think the current generation of kids needs to use technology as a building block instead of a crutch. Get off the couch and get the hell outside, look the melting ice caps square in the face, and figure out ways to really solve the desperate problems riddling our Earth. Either that or figure out how to colonize the rest of the universe.

And those of us ages 21-41 need to set the example for them. Instead of letting real, meaningful change be bogged down before it gets off the ground by over-governmental absurdity, we need to create a free-wheeling, massive humanitarian task force. It can be done, I just don't think we are confident enough in the power of the people.

*clink, clink* My two cents.

/ducks, preparing to be flamed